archeos-db metapackage

luca.bezzi luca.bezzi@arc-team.com
Thu Jan 31 12:22:16 CET 2013


Ni NIcola, sorry for the late answer, I'll write below...
 
 
From: "Archeos-dev" archeos-dev-bounces+luca.bezzi=arc-team.com@lists.linux.it
To: archeos-dev@lists.linux.it
Cc: 
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 11:49:09 +0000
Subject: Re: archeos-db metapackage


> 

  
    
  
  
    > Dear Luca and Fabrizio,> 
      I am not sure if you already had this in mind, however I believe
      that nowdays when using 3d visualization a 3d engine it is quite
      important.Yes, we would like to insert 3D engines in ArcheOS, actually we were oriented to OGRE> 
      There are as you may know 2 types of solutions which I believe are
      equally important:> 
      > 
      - The first would be just a simple viewer for 3d objects and
      simple scenes, which I believe is plenty out there but I also
      believe that is important to export full application without the
      need of installing the viewer itself, an example is LumenRT(but I don't know wich
      one is the equivalent for Linux)OK, I will check for something like this for Linux> 
      > 
      - The second is a full developing environment which would be
      capable of including all the interactivity and real-time rendering
      capabilities of modern video-games> 
      > 
      At the moment I am still working with Unity 3d on windows because
      I don't think there are many other options similar to for Linux.> 
      Unity 4.0 as been relesed with the option of  publishing for Linux
      but unfortunately without the developing environment.> 
      Other solutions for Linux that I found on the internet are:> 
      > 
      http://www.garagegames.com/products/torque-3d(which
      is going open source soon)> 
      > 
      http://www.ogre3d.org/(works
      well with blender but needs to be  built for linux)> 
      > 
      http://www.cafu.de/features> 
      > 
      http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/> 
      > 
      http://www.crystalspace3d.org> 
      > 
      http://tinygfx.com/> 
      > 
      But I believe that a more accurate research must be done.I think that one of the best option would be Ogre, but we are just working on it in these days, if you want to join directly the discussion, you can come in the IRC chaneel (where we can have a more direct interaction)> 
      > 
      Thanks and keep in touch!> 
      Nic> 
      > 
      Ciao> 
      > 
      On 21/01/2013 09:20, Fabrizio Furnari wrote:> 
    
    Ok, I agree on all considerations.
      > My doubt was only about MongoDB, is it necessary for any
        software in ArcheOS?> 
        > 
        > On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:36 AM,
          luca.bezzi <luca.bezzi@arc-team.com>
          wrote:> 
          
            > 
              > 
                > 
                  > 
                    >  HI Fabrizio,
                    > you are right to keep ArcheOS image small, but,
                      IMHO, database package (as well as GIS and
                      statistics) is very important for archaeologists.
                      Regarding the db in Caesar this is the situation
                      (at least as I see it...):> 
                      > 
                      Starting from the most important:
                    >  
                    > 1) PostgreSQL ---> the main software, very
                      important to build high performance databases both
                      in local and in remote. It has many pros, but one
                      of the best thing of this software is the
                      possibility to be connected with GRASS (GIS).
                      Regarding his "history" in ArcheOS, we chose
                      Postgres instead MySQL because of its license.
                      When we started MySQL had no GPL, but another OS
                      license and for professional use they asked the
                      payment of a fee (now I think also MySQL is using
                      GPL). Of course some people reported us that it
                      would be better to insert also MySQL in ArcheOS,
                      but it would be redundant and Postgres developed
                      faster and better in the last years (that's just
                      my opinion). 
                    >  
                    > 2) PostGIS ---> spatial extension of
                      Postgres. It is iportant for an interaction with
                      different GIS. In our work I would say it is
                      necessary.
                    >  
                    > 3) pgAdmin3 -->  administration and
                      development platform for Postgres. Important to
                      let people work with a GUI (a lot of archaeologist
                      does not like terminals...)
                    >  
                    > 4) phpPgAdmin --> similar to pgAdmin, but
                      web-based, useful to build web tools (webgis and
                      webdb is another important topic in archeology,
                      especially to open archeological data) 
                    >  
                    > 5) PGDesigner --> to tell the truth I do not
                      remember very well why we insert also this
                      software. We had a discussion about it during the
                      past release of ArcheOS and I think the reason was
                      that it does something that pgAdmin does not do,
                      but pgAdmin is better for other thing, so the best
                      wast to keep both of the software...
                    >  
                    > That was about POstgres; since ArcheOS 4 we
                      implemented also SQLite tools, which many
                      archaeologists find very useful. I guess that the
                      point is that when someone has to build a very
                      complex db, maybe web-based, which has to manage a
                      lot of users, than he will use Postgers and
                      postgres related stuff; when someone just need a
                      simpler db (maybe with one single user), very
                      portable (just one file to copy and paste from one
                      computer to another), tha he can use SQLite and
                      related stuff. It is something that became very
                      popular in archeology in the last couple of years,
                      but in my opinion, it cannot replace POstgres.
                      Anyway this should be the situation:
                    >  
                    > 6) SQLite --> the main software. Useful for
                      portable db> 
                      > 
                      7) SQLite Data Browser --> a GUI editor for
                      newbies and people who is not really comfortable
                      with terminals
                    > 
                       
                    >  8) Spatialite --> spatial extension (same
                      as for Postgres)> 
                    
                    >  
                    > 9) Spatialite GUI --> GUI (same as befor) 
                    >  
                    > 10) Spatialite GIS --> this is a very simple
                      GIS build on top of Spatialie. maybe in case we
                      should move this entry in GIS. I don't remember
                      why we added it to ArcheOS CAesar, but I think
                      because is a fast tool for not very complex gis
                      (let's say database based). I think was an issue
                      from Denis, maybe he can explain better waht are
                      the potentialities o f this software
                    >  
                    > 11) Tellico --> just a simple tool to keep
                      order in a book library. It does more or less the
                      same things that Zotero, which looks better. We
                      could replace it with Zotero, so to optimize the
                      db section.> 
                      > 
                      So that's just my point of view (I am not even a
                      db specialist...). What do you think about it?
                    >  Just another consideration: normally in
                      ArcheOS we chose the way to implement both very
                      powerful but complex software (for the
                      professional needs of expert users) and less
                      powerful, but more user friendly applications (to
                      help archaeologists entering the FLOSS world). In
                      my opinion, all he GUI stuff of db section are
                      important for newbies, if we will take them away,
                      a lot of people will not use this tools. In this
                      case Postgres is the powerful, but complex
                      softawre and Spatialite is the simpler, but more
                      user friendly software. Moreover if an
                      archaeologist has a simple project, maybe he will
                      use spatialite also when he is expert in postgres,
                      just to keep simple his life :). 
                    >  
                    > Sorry for the long email, that's just my
                      opinion, it would be nice to hear what more expert
                      people in database thinks about it.> 
                      > 
                      Greetings> 
                    
                    >  
                    >  
                    >  
                    >  
                    >  
                    >  
                    >  
                    >  
                    > From:
                        fab.furnari@gmail.com
                    > To:
                        "luca.bezzi" luca.bezzi@arc-team.com
                    > Cc:
                        archeos-dev@lists.linux.it
                    > Date:
                        Sun, 20 Jan 2013 22:50:52 +0100
                    > Subject:
                        Re: archeos-db metapackage
                    > 
                    > Hi, I agree to keep the software we used in
                    Caesar, but we should remember that each software we
                    automatically include into Theodoric must be
                    motivated: which software uses it as backend?
                    > > I mean, we could include every single
                      database in the Debian repository but this let the
                      image grow, could open potential security issue,
                      and we definitely should support it into some
                      tutorial or documentation page.
                    > So I think that if a database is not needed
                    specifically by a software included in ArcheOS, or
                    is not packaged by us, we should keep it available
                    from the repository and let the user the choice to
                    install it or not...> 
                    > 
                    > On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 6:32 PM, luca.bezzi <luca.bezzi@arc-team.com>
                    wrote:> 
                    > 
                      > 
                        > > HI all,
                        > > we are going on with the development
                          of ArcheOS Theodoric, thanks also to the big
                          help of Romain Janvier, who joined the project
                          and already packaged a lot of software :).> 
                          > 
                          > Regarding software selection and
                          metapackages:> 
                          > 
                          > Actually we can considered close the
                          archeos-cad metapackage, which includes
                          LibreCAD and FreeCAD. Thanks to the help of
                          Alessandro Camiz, who tried BRLCAD, we decided
                          to not include (by now) this other CAD in
                          ArcheOS. It looks like it is a little bit too
                          complex for archaeological/architectural
                          needs. Anyway we will keep it under
                          observation, to see if there are specific
                          projects in which it is necessary to work with
                          such a CAD. 
                        > >  
                        > > We would like now to go on with the
                          next metapackage: archeos-db (database). > 
                          > The old (ArcheOS Caesar) software list
                          is:> 
                          > 
                          > 1) pgadmin3
                        > > 2) phpPgAdmin
                        > > 3) pgDesigner
                        > > 4) PostgreSQL
                        > > 5) PostGIS
                        > > 6) sqlite3
                        > > 7) SQLite
                            Data Browser
                        > > 8) spatialite
                        > > 9) spatialite-gui
                        > > 10) spatialite-gis
                        > > 11)  Tellico
                        > > 12) Zotero (as iceweasel extension) > 
                        
                        > >  
                        > > If you have any suggestion about this
                          metapackage, please send a mail in this
                          mailing list during the next two weeks. We
                          have already some feedback from Romain:  
                        > >  
                        > > 1) software to add --> MongoDB (http://www.mongodb.org/),
                          a scalable, high-performance, open source NoSQL
                          database
                        > >  
                        > > 2) better software selection -->
                          replace Tellico with a Zotero standalone
                          version (less invasive than in the browser and
                          with a specific menu entry). The two software
                          are pretty similar, but Zotero is more
                          "academic".
                        > >  
                        > > So let us know what you think about
                          it. As usual, for a direct interaction during
                          ArcheOS development, you can use our IRC
                          channel (server: FreeNode; channel: #archeos).> 
                          > 
                          > Ciao.> 
                        
                        > 
                      
                    
                    > 
                    > 
                    > --> 
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