archeos-db metapackage
luca.bezzi
luca.bezzi@arc-team.com
Thu Jan 31 12:22:16 CET 2013
Ni NIcola, sorry for the late answer, I'll write below...
From: "Archeos-dev" archeos-dev-bounces+luca.bezzi=arc-team.com@lists.linux.it
To: archeos-dev@lists.linux.it
Cc:
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 11:49:09 +0000
Subject: Re: archeos-db metapackage
>
> Dear Luca and Fabrizio,>
I am not sure if you already had this in mind, however I believe
that nowdays when using 3d visualization a 3d engine it is quite
important.Yes, we would like to insert 3D engines in ArcheOS, actually we were oriented to OGRE>
There are as you may know 2 types of solutions which I believe are
equally important:>
>
- The first would be just a simple viewer for 3d objects and
simple scenes, which I believe is plenty out there but I also
believe that is important to export full application without the
need of installing the viewer itself, an example is LumenRT(but I don't know wich
one is the equivalent for Linux)OK, I will check for something like this for Linux>
>
- The second is a full developing environment which would be
capable of including all the interactivity and real-time rendering
capabilities of modern video-games>
>
At the moment I am still working with Unity 3d on windows because
I don't think there are many other options similar to for Linux.>
Unity 4.0 as been relesed with the option of publishing for Linux
but unfortunately without the developing environment.>
Other solutions for Linux that I found on the internet are:>
>
http://www.garagegames.com/products/torque-3d(which
is going open source soon)>
>
http://www.ogre3d.org/(works
well with blender but needs to be built for linux)>
>
http://www.cafu.de/features>
>
http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/>
>
http://www.crystalspace3d.org>
>
http://tinygfx.com/>
>
But I believe that a more accurate research must be done.I think that one of the best option would be Ogre, but we are just working on it in these days, if you want to join directly the discussion, you can come in the IRC chaneel (where we can have a more direct interaction)>
>
Thanks and keep in touch!>
Nic>
>
Ciao>
>
On 21/01/2013 09:20, Fabrizio Furnari wrote:>
Ok, I agree on all considerations.
> My doubt was only about MongoDB, is it necessary for any
software in ArcheOS?>
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:36 AM,
luca.bezzi <luca.bezzi@arc-team.com>
wrote:>
>
>
>
>
> HI Fabrizio,
> you are right to keep ArcheOS image small, but,
IMHO, database package (as well as GIS and
statistics) is very important for archaeologists.
Regarding the db in Caesar this is the situation
(at least as I see it...):>
>
Starting from the most important:
>
> 1) PostgreSQL ---> the main software, very
important to build high performance databases both
in local and in remote. It has many pros, but one
of the best thing of this software is the
possibility to be connected with GRASS (GIS).
Regarding his "history" in ArcheOS, we chose
Postgres instead MySQL because of its license.
When we started MySQL had no GPL, but another OS
license and for professional use they asked the
payment of a fee (now I think also MySQL is using
GPL). Of course some people reported us that it
would be better to insert also MySQL in ArcheOS,
but it would be redundant and Postgres developed
faster and better in the last years (that's just
my opinion).
>
> 2) PostGIS ---> spatial extension of
Postgres. It is iportant for an interaction with
different GIS. In our work I would say it is
necessary.
>
> 3) pgAdmin3 --> administration and
development platform for Postgres. Important to
let people work with a GUI (a lot of archaeologist
does not like terminals...)
>
> 4) phpPgAdmin --> similar to pgAdmin, but
web-based, useful to build web tools (webgis and
webdb is another important topic in archeology,
especially to open archeological data)
>
> 5) PGDesigner --> to tell the truth I do not
remember very well why we insert also this
software. We had a discussion about it during the
past release of ArcheOS and I think the reason was
that it does something that pgAdmin does not do,
but pgAdmin is better for other thing, so the best
wast to keep both of the software...
>
> That was about POstgres; since ArcheOS 4 we
implemented also SQLite tools, which many
archaeologists find very useful. I guess that the
point is that when someone has to build a very
complex db, maybe web-based, which has to manage a
lot of users, than he will use Postgers and
postgres related stuff; when someone just need a
simpler db (maybe with one single user), very
portable (just one file to copy and paste from one
computer to another), tha he can use SQLite and
related stuff. It is something that became very
popular in archeology in the last couple of years,
but in my opinion, it cannot replace POstgres.
Anyway this should be the situation:
>
> 6) SQLite --> the main software. Useful for
portable db>
>
7) SQLite Data Browser --> a GUI editor for
newbies and people who is not really comfortable
with terminals
>
> 8) Spatialite --> spatial extension (same
as for Postgres)>
>
> 9) Spatialite GUI --> GUI (same as befor)
>
> 10) Spatialite GIS --> this is a very simple
GIS build on top of Spatialie. maybe in case we
should move this entry in GIS. I don't remember
why we added it to ArcheOS CAesar, but I think
because is a fast tool for not very complex gis
(let's say database based). I think was an issue
from Denis, maybe he can explain better waht are
the potentialities o f this software
>
> 11) Tellico --> just a simple tool to keep
order in a book library. It does more or less the
same things that Zotero, which looks better. We
could replace it with Zotero, so to optimize the
db section.>
>
So that's just my point of view (I am not even a
db specialist...). What do you think about it?
> Just another consideration: normally in
ArcheOS we chose the way to implement both very
powerful but complex software (for the
professional needs of expert users) and less
powerful, but more user friendly applications (to
help archaeologists entering the FLOSS world). In
my opinion, all he GUI stuff of db section are
important for newbies, if we will take them away,
a lot of people will not use this tools. In this
case Postgres is the powerful, but complex
softawre and Spatialite is the simpler, but more
user friendly software. Moreover if an
archaeologist has a simple project, maybe he will
use spatialite also when he is expert in postgres,
just to keep simple his life :).
>
> Sorry for the long email, that's just my
opinion, it would be nice to hear what more expert
people in database thinks about it.>
>
Greetings>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From:
fab.furnari@gmail.com
> To:
"luca.bezzi" luca.bezzi@arc-team.com
> Cc:
archeos-dev@lists.linux.it
> Date:
Sun, 20 Jan 2013 22:50:52 +0100
> Subject:
Re: archeos-db metapackage
>
> Hi, I agree to keep the software we used in
Caesar, but we should remember that each software we
automatically include into Theodoric must be
motivated: which software uses it as backend?
> > I mean, we could include every single
database in the Debian repository but this let the
image grow, could open potential security issue,
and we definitely should support it into some
tutorial or documentation page.
> So I think that if a database is not needed
specifically by a software included in ArcheOS, or
is not packaged by us, we should keep it available
from the repository and let the user the choice to
install it or not...>
>
> On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 6:32 PM, luca.bezzi <luca.bezzi@arc-team.com>
wrote:>
>
>
> > HI all,
> > we are going on with the development
of ArcheOS Theodoric, thanks also to the big
help of Romain Janvier, who joined the project
and already packaged a lot of software :).>
>
> Regarding software selection and
metapackages:>
>
> Actually we can considered close the
archeos-cad metapackage, which includes
LibreCAD and FreeCAD. Thanks to the help of
Alessandro Camiz, who tried BRLCAD, we decided
to not include (by now) this other CAD in
ArcheOS. It looks like it is a little bit too
complex for archaeological/architectural
needs. Anyway we will keep it under
observation, to see if there are specific
projects in which it is necessary to work with
such a CAD.
> >
> > We would like now to go on with the
next metapackage: archeos-db (database). >
> The old (ArcheOS Caesar) software list
is:>
>
> 1) pgadmin3
> > 2) phpPgAdmin
> > 3) pgDesigner
> > 4) PostgreSQL
> > 5) PostGIS
> > 6) sqlite3
> > 7) SQLite
Data Browser
> > 8) spatialite
> > 9) spatialite-gui
> > 10) spatialite-gis
> > 11) Tellico
> > 12) Zotero (as iceweasel extension) >
> >
> > If you have any suggestion about this
metapackage, please send a mail in this
mailing list during the next two weeks. We
have already some feedback from Romain:
> >
> > 1) software to add --> MongoDB (http://www.mongodb.org/),
a scalable, high-performance, open source NoSQL
database
> >
> > 2) better software selection -->
replace Tellico with a Zotero standalone
version (less invasive than in the browser and
with a specific menu entry). The two software
are pretty similar, but Zotero is more
"academic".
> >
> > So let us know what you think about
it. As usual, for a direct interaction during
ArcheOS development, you can use our IRC
channel (server: FreeNode; channel: #archeos).>
>
> Ciao.>
>
>
>
> -->
> Mailing list info: http://lists.linux.it/listinfo/archeos-dev
>
>
-->
Mailing list info: http://lists.linux.it/listinfo/archeos-dev>
>
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>
>
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>
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